00;00;00;00 - 00;00;36;04 Unknown Hello and welcome to another episode of the California Board of Accountancy Accounting for California podcast. My name is David Hemphill. I'm the information and planning officer here at the CBA, and I'm very happy to be joined today by a CPA with a very intriguing career. She's been licensed for over 30 years, has worked in an accounting firm, owned her own business, but then segue into public service with positions on the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, then six years in the California State Assembly, followed by the Board of Equalization before beginning her current role as state treasurer in 2018, a position she has been elected to twice. 00;00;36;07 - 00;00;55;23 Unknown She was presented with the California Society of CPAs Distinguished Service Award in 2011. So it is my pleasure to introduce you to California State Treasurer Fiona ma, CPA. Thank you. Hello, treasure month. Hey, David. It's a privilege to be here with you today, and I'm very, like I said, intrigued to kind of hear about your career and let's talk about it. 00;00;55;24 - 00;01;15;13 Fiona Ma Okay. Well, let's, started out as a traditional, career. I think growing up, my parents want us to be one of the lead professions lawyer, engineer, accounting, or doctor. There we go. I was good at math, so I'm an accountant. My brother is an engineer. Followed my father, and then my sister is a chiropractor. So a doctor. 00;01;15;19 - 00;01;36;15 Unknown Okay. We were just missing one sibling right out of the four anyway. And I'm sure that person, would have been a, a lawyer. The last one. Exactly. So early in your career, you worked for Ernst and Whitney, which would later become EY before starting your own accounting practice in San Francisco. Why did you choose to start your own business instead of continuing with the big firm? 00;01;36;18 - 00;01;59;11 Unknown Yeah, well, back then, there were not a lot of women, partners or people of color in leadership positions. And so when you don't see your path, with an organization, then perhaps it's time to start, my own business. But my father, has always been an entrepreneur. And so he always encouraged us to start our own business. 00;01;59;14 - 00;02;20;02 Unknown And so I think me and my brother that's always been in our mind is, you know, work for someone, get some experience like he did, and then start your own business. Perfect. So what has the CPA designation meant to you in your professional career? Well, it is very, very prestigious. It is not easy to pass the CPA exam. 00;02;20;04 - 00;02;46;22 Unknown Not easy to get all of your auditing hours. And so the fact that it was, very difficult. Hi. Barriers to entry for this profession, it means a lot to me. I have not really practiced since 2002, when I got elected to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors. But I do do my 80 hours of continuing education so that I do two years using the three letters, after my name. 00;02;46;24 - 00;03;09;15 Unknown But my father always reminds me that, you know, when are you going to go back and do accounting again? When are you going to go make money again? I'm like, I don't know, dad. I guess when the people stop electing me, then I will go back to that. So I think in the back of my mind, it's always good to still have my CPA license because, you know, once you retire or go inactive very, very hard. 00;03;09;18 - 00;03;28;29 Unknown To re activate those three letters again. And I love the fact that it means enough to you that even though you it's been a couple of decades since you actively practice, that you are continuing and still want that CPA. Yeah, I mean, it's good to keep up. You know, you have to do taxes. I do my own taxes every year and still give advice or do some pro. 00;03;29;01 - 00;03;48;23 Unknown People still ask you for tax advice. They do. They do. And so I you know I'm busy. Well I give them advice. But then I say, hey, you know the disclaimer better check with your accountants. And of course CPAs. So much more opportunity than just taxes. Yes. Oh, yes, yes. All right, so you were elected to the role of state treasurer in 2018. 00;03;48;25 - 00;04;07;26 Unknown And I kind of gave in the intro, six years in the state assembly, term on the Board of Equalization. Let's talk about the current role. State treasurer, what are your responsibilities as treasurer of the world's fourth largest economy? Yeah, so I am the banker. All of the revenues come into my office about $3 trillion a year. 00;04;07;29 - 00;04;34;06 Unknown I also invest the state's idle funds, as well as the, idle funds for about 2200 local governments. So that balance is anywhere between 100 and 50 billion to a high of 250 billion during Covid. But we got $28 billion from the federal government for assistance. And then I also issue other bonds for the state of California, both general obligation and revenue bonds for the state of California, as well as the UC and CSU systems. 00;04;34;10 - 00;05;02;12 Unknown So that is the constitutional functions of my office. And then when Jesse Unruh. He was a very powerful, member of the Assembly Speaker, he became treasurer. He said, we're sitting on all this money. We should do more. And so today I fund and finance affordable housing, public transportation, public charter schools. And I administer all of the children's hospital bonds as well as emergency crisis beds. 00;05;02;14 - 00;05;31;19 Unknown I have a lot of small business programs for savings programs. So I've got about 12 executive directors under my leadership in Sacramento. I have about 500 employees and I think having that accounting degree, that background in accounting, tax and finance, has really helped me and led me to this path where the treasurer's office is probably one of the easier jobs I've had. 00;05;31;19 - 00;05;53;26 Unknown I haven't really needed a, you know, steep learning curve, except the bonds I never worked in the bond space, never sold bonds or securities, but everything else I pretty much have done over my last 30 years. I figured that CPA was some sort of a benefit to this role. It was not a requirement. It definitely helps. And it's interesting because when I ran in 2018, I ran against two other CPAs. 00;05;53;29 - 00;06;13;16 Unknown So there were three of us on the ballot, the CPA. Exactly. So, you know, I think having that designation really does help in these financial rules. If there is one favorite aspect of the job. What would that be? Well, I'm a real estate tax accountant, so I am very focused on housing. And that is crisis here in California. 00;06;13;16 - 00;06;43;25 Unknown That's the governor's priority as well as the legislature. So I chair every single meeting because I want to make sure that we are allocating the bonds and the tax credits, fairly equitably, in a transparent manner. So, I spent I personally spend the most time on our housing programs. That's certainly a worthy endeavor. So that leads me perfectly, because I dug a quote out here that from an interview you did in Bloomberg that says, I believe in checks and balances, accountability and also being proactive. 00;06;43;25 - 00;07;10;27 Unknown So that sounds like a true CPA quote. I imagine that that's really kind of how you go about your day to day as being a treasurer. Yes, yes, in this job as treasurer. But it is definitely changed, the environment. We used to get a lot of funding from the federal government, like FEMA reimbursements for fires, education, seniors, health care, children, food programs. 00;07;10;27 - 00;07;38;27 Unknown And these days, we're not seeing that same level of support. So it does create a lot of anxiety and stress, because we're always trying to think about how we're going to backfill all of these programs. And we only have so many tools in our toolbox that I can actually use. But whenever we can, we're really trying to create, you know, new programs and trying to make sure that if there are trigger cuts that potentially, we have funding that can survive. 00;07;39;00 - 00;07;56;19 Unknown Exactly. Very good. Well, I want to take a quick break from the professional side of treasurer Ma and ask some other questions that I know our audience will be very interested in, such as: I understand you're a bit of a karaoke fan. Enjoy doing that. Do you have a, a go to song or two that we might hear from you? 00;07;56;21 - 00;08;19;13 Unknown Yes. I usually sing Creedence Clearwater. Have you ever seen the rain? Okay. And that was very appropriate for a number of years because we had drought. We saw very little rain. And so. Yes. So I kind of throw that in like, yeah, we need it now. Please send more rain. Yes. Ironic angle. Exactly. Yes. And these days, I am singing Ed Sheeran. 00;08;19;16 - 00;08;34;08 Unknown Perfect. Perfect. Yes, yes. So I've always tried to get men to sing it, but not too many men want to sing it, so I'm singing it. It's not my best song, but I like it. It's about a loved one. Could go either way. I like that. I have interviewed Ed Sheeran at one point in my life. 00;08;34;11 - 00;08;57;28 Unknown So that was kind of fun. So. So you have a dog named monkey? Am I correct in saying that you actually have three rescue dogs? Tell me about your furry friends. Yes, I've had dogs ever since I was young and it started out as one dog in the family. And then it became two dogs. And I don't know when it changed to three dogs, but that seems to be the number now that we have maintained. 00;08;57;28 - 00;09;22;00 Unknown And right now I live with my father. So my father has his dog, Henry. He's only got one eye, poodle mix. I adopted him from Linda Blair. The famous actress. She's got a foundation where she rescues mostly big dogs. But because of the pandemic, all of these shelters would release these dogs and basically say, hey, Linda, come get them. 00;09;22;00 - 00;09;46;14 Unknown And Linda's got such a big heart that she would just go and round up whatever dog was sitting in the parking lot. And so she does have a smaller dogs now. And so we adopted Henry. And then my husband's dog is monkey. Yes. You know, because dogs usually only have one master that they follow, obviously they'll follow other people when that one person's not there. 00;09;46;14 - 00;10;04;09 Unknown But we each have our dog and then our latest dog. We adopted her at ten years old. And so that's, Mina or Mimi. She's a little toy poodle, about 6 pounds. So she's kind of my dog. Okay. When I'm home, I love it. And you're not home too much because you are doing a lot. I saw this, made me laugh a little bit. 00;10;04;09 - 00;10;29;11 Unknown So you were the. You presented something for the world's ugliest dog competition? Yes. Now we're monkey wasn't. And Mimi, we're not in that competition right now. No no no no no. Far too good looking. Yeah. So I love the fairs. We had 78 fairgrounds here in California. And each there has a something a little bit unique, like, the water skiing squirrel, or the little pig races and calaveras. 00;10;29;16 - 00;10;57;22 Unknown Exactly. Jumping frogs. And so this one up in Sonoma, Marin, they had the ugly dog contest, and I think they found me because they know that I am about adopting dogs. And then what's really surprising is I do a lot right. I'm on social media. You see me at all different events, but I got the most amount of hits for being a judge at the Ugly Dog contest, and my office was very surprised. 00;10;57;22 - 00;11;13;04 Unknown You know, accounting I guess we're not that exciting here in the office. That's probably a good thing. I think if we're not in the news or in the newspaper, that means we're doing a good job. So anyway, so my office was like, this is great. You know, you're getting so much media. And then this year it came around. 00;11;13;04 - 00;11;31;16 Unknown I was like, kind of sad that they didn't invite me back, but they did at the last minute. Sorry. Very good. You're locked in. I'm locked in. I think that's funny. Let's get back briefly share maybe one of the proudest moments of your career, whether that was at state treasurer or maybe in the past. I've got a lot of things that I am proud of and give me more than one. 00;11;31;16 - 00;11;56;11 Unknown It just depends on the crowd I'm talking to. I would say the hardest bill that I passed in the legislature was to ban phthalates from baby toys. So babies would, you know, they're teething, they're sucking on whatever it is. The plastic book or, you know, the rubber ducky for hours and hours. And these products that were coming into the United States had this chemical called phthalates. 00;11;56;11 - 00;12;20;06 Unknown And it makes the plastics softer. So I call them like toxic lollipops that these kids were just sucking on these chemicals. Canada, Mexico, the European Union banned this chemical from their baby toys. Yet in the United States, still no, it was still on the shelf. And these babies were, you know, I think associated with a lot of different health, issues. 00;12;20;06 - 00;12;40;18 Unknown And so I had passed a ban on phthalates and bisphenol A. This is a plastic that makes, plastics harder, like Nalgene bottles. So I did that in San Francisco when I was on the Board of Supervisors because we had a precautionary principle. So that means if something is thought to cause harm, we should on the side of caution. 00;12;40;20 - 00;13;15;18 Unknown So I thought, okay, I'm just going to do it here in Sacramento. But that's not the way it works in Sacramento, right? It's not. We don't work on a precautionary principle and so when I did propose a bill, I had to bifurcate it and just pick one chemical because it was too much. Right. So I took the one I thought had better science and every time I would get it out of committee, there were more lobbyists, that were being hired, whether it was from the toy manufacturer, the chamber, the plastics coming in on big, you know, stores that were selling it. 00;13;15;18 - 00;13;34;18 Unknown I mean, it was just crazy. But I managed to get it to the governor's desk. Arnold was a governor at the time, and he did not want to pass it either, because those are all of his supporters and stakeholders. So he wanted to veto it. But then we had to be a little creative. We got Steven Spielberg to call him. 00;13;34;20 - 00;13;58;05 Unknown We had like a thousand ducks on the lawn. Right. We got his pediatrician to call him, but I think the big game changer was his then former wife, Maria Shriver. So I think pillow talk does work. And he signed the bill and he said, well, we're going to create a green chemistry council to study the rest of the chemicals. 00;13;58;05 - 00;14;24;21 Unknown We have thousands of chemicals out there, okay. And it is very, very hard. Even after then. That was 2007 to ban any type of chemical still in this state. So I think that was my proudest moment. That was a big test for me, but it really showed me Sacramento and how Sacramento works very, very early on. Yeah, I was able to pass 60 bills eventually over six years. 00;14;24;23 - 00;14;43;11 Unknown But that was definitely my toughest bill, including a couple with the CBA, which we appreciate you for. But that's a fascinating story. Yeah, I love that. And I had no idea we would get into Arnold Schwarzenegger Pillow Talk in this podcast. I love it. I got a lot more, but that's perfect because the California Board of Accountancy, obviously consumer protection is our mission. 00;14;43;13 - 00;15;02;11 Unknown Yes, that's our number one thing. And it feels like looked into some of, you know, the bills that you did during your time as assembly member and a lot of that did have to do with kind of fairness and ethics and consumer protection. So that was that was a driving force for your time. Yeah. You know, one of my funnest bills was my name change bill. 00;15;02;13 - 00;15;24;11 Unknown So I had read in the paper that a couple, heterosexual couple wanted to change the guy, and the girl wanted to change their last name. He was estranged from his family. He wanted his fiancee or his wife's last name. And I found out that it is very difficult for men to change your name. Right? Usually. Right. Women go down to City hall. 00;15;24;14 - 00;15;45;06 Unknown They can decide what name they want, but the men cannot change your name. And that comes from way back, I think. Like maybe bank robbery. You know, they don't want you to take another name so that you escape the law. So in order to change your name, you had to hire an attorney. You had to publicize eyes back when we had newspapers, you know, in those what is it, the the 20th century. 00;15;45;06 - 00;16;09;18 Unknown Exactly like the classifies or whatever it is, announcing announcements that you were going to change your name? You'd have to go to court to do it. And I thought it was ridiculous. So my bill was able allowed, you know, husbands or males to change their name to a route that was similar. You couldn't go from Heller to Smith, but you could be a hyphen of you and your wife. 00;16;09;18 - 00;16;31;06 Unknown You could combine the names or, something that made sense when I found out that LGBT couples were having difficulty because they were adopting kids, they had to pick one name, and it became difficult for the other spouse in school or like hospitals settings. So then we allowed LGBT couples to also change your name, which made a huge difference, right? 00;16;31;06 - 00;16;48;24 Unknown So I think that's like a happy side of you to thank for that. I had no idea. That's great. Do you have any advice for students? Let's kind of circle back now to the CPA for students that are considering accounting as a career and getting their CPA license? Yeah. So a lot of people, a lot of students do ask me, you know, what do they think? 00;16;48;24 - 00;17;05;25 Unknown I'm thinking about being an accountant. Number one, you have to like the classes. I don't know how many times in undergrad I would call my parents. Say, this is not for me. I want a chance for my parents to be like, nope. See you. Talk to you next week in the big four list. You got to stick it out. 00;17;05;25 - 00;17;29;11 Unknown You got to stick it out. And they're not the most exciting classes for some people, you know, that are looking for pomp and circumstance, right? Accounting is very like, very black and white, almost. Except taxes. Taxes are a little gray. But everything else, you know, just makes sense, right? Debits and credits and stuff. So it has to be a certain personality to be able to really get into it. 00;17;29;11 - 00;17;51;17 Unknown Number one. Number two, it's still very difficult to pass the exam, almost like your bar exam these days. And so if you're not a good test taker, if you're not a good student able to concentrate, it's very difficult. And then getting those internships after getting the first job where you're going to get audit hours. So I did tax. 00;17;51;19 - 00;18;11;17 Unknown I also interned with Ernst and Whitney in the, trust in the State Department in Manhattan. And so getting audit hours, being assigned to an audit when you're not specializing an audit is really hard because you have to kind of fight for yourself, and you have to fight to get on assignments to get, you know, the checklist, you know, get your hours in. 00;18;11;17 - 00;18;34;22 Unknown And so, you know, you have to really want to do it. And that's what I say to people. But if you do do it because it's so difficult, you know, you're going to be highly sought out after. You're always going to have a job, right? Death and taxes, two different things, either mortician or a tax accountant. You're always going to have a job and you're going to be sought out, and you will be compensated. 00;18;34;22 - 00;18;55;27 Unknown Well, if you kind of stick in this finance area, because everybody needs a good accountant and someone who's good with numbers. Yeah, the rewards are there if you stick it out. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So you've got about a year left in your second term as treasurer. So what's on the horizon? Well, I am running for lieutenant governor. Next year, if elected, that'll be my fifth elected position. 00;18;55;27 - 00;19;20;05 Unknown I haven't lost yet. I mean, after 30 years, I thought about it. And is there something else I would rather do? There is not. I like being in public service. I like helping people, leveling the playing field. Yeah. Trying to solve complex problems. I think that is probably my corner stone. And what I'm, known for. If you say it's difficult or it's never been done, game on. 00;19;20;07 - 00;19;40;06 Unknown Then I'm up for the challenge and I'm going to, to take it on. And I'll give you one example. Recently, we created the San Francisco Farm Bureau in San Francisco. We are the 54th chapter out of 58 counties. There's only one real big county, LA, that does not have a Farm bureau. Okay. And you think about it. 00;19;40;06 - 00;20;01;05 Unknown Everything happened in San Francisco. It started here. That's how I got involved in agriculture. Was trying to save the Cow Palace again. Arnold wanted to sell the cow palace. A lot of Arnold stories, by the way. He wanted to sell the Cow Palace. And everyone said, you need to save the Cow Palace. And I'm like, what? What? Why do I want to, you know, save this building that's dilapidated and old. 00;20;01;07 - 00;20;19;07 Unknown But I learned the history about agriculture and everything started here. San Francisco Farm Bureau over the many years, and they haven't been able to do it. So I was able to do it. Yeah. There you go. Cow Palace. I remember as a kid, they did concerts there by then. So I'm saying everybody when they said knows the history, they've had a graduation. 00;20;19;07 - 00;20;36;12 Unknown They've gone to, a concert. You know, they've seen the Harlem Globetrotters, they've been to the Dickens Fair, whatever it is. Right? Yeah. Oh that's great. Well, it was such a pleasure getting to know you and the very intriguing career, and just love hearing about all the stuff you love giving back and looking out for the public. 00;20;36;12 - 00;20;46;29 Unknown We wish you well in all of your future endeavors. So thank you once again. Thank you to treasure Fiona Ma and thank you for listening to another episode of the accounting for California podcast. Until next time, goodbye.